40: Possible pre-Celtic numerals in Wales
Written by Linden Alexander Pentecost. Published in the UK on the 22nd of August 2024, updated at end of August 2024. This page/article contains the following sections (after the "Note" beginning the paragraph below this): Introduction; Two possible sets of pre-Celtic numbers, mentioned by David Thomas; Other Brythonic-like, but possibly pre-Celtic numerals in Cardiganshire (includes table); references. This web-page/article contains: 1798 words. This article (the one in front of you) was published on www.bookofdunbarra.co.uk
Note (updated late August 2024): I hope in the near future (in the next month or two) to publish a Kindle-only ebook about specifically Mount Snowdon, northwest Wales and Welsh, and on connections with Ireland, but which will be unrelated to the content in this article (the one in front of you) and to that in my other previously published works. The new Kindle-only ebook and the article in front of you are also unrelated to my recent article on this website, titled: 37: Northeast Welsh dialects & prehistoric language. I will probably publish more about these numbers in different articles in the near future. Yesterday on the 21st of August 2024 I published another article on this website, titled: 39: languages in the Balkans, a discussion.
Introduction
Is there evidence of pre-Indo-European languages in western Wales? Most definately, I would say. I have written about and discussed many etymologies and other subjects in relation to this before. But in this article I will not go over this and will only share some new research. One of my already published works on the Cardiganshire Goidelic numerals was published on Omniglot, and is titled: The Cardiganshire "Goidelic" numerals and Cantre'r Gwaelod, are they connected? (Update: (which I forgot to add until late August 2024 despite that the book in question was published months ago: an updated version of this article originally posted on Omniglot, was published in an ebook published on www.bookofdunbarra.co.uk (this website) on the 28th of January 2024, titled: Giants in Britain and beyond, and their relationship to language, including Eigg Gaelic, and to the Attacotti - published via bookofdunbarra (UK), No. 8 in a new series of books published through BookofDunbarra 2024).
(At the time of writing the aforementioned article for Omniglot, the aforementioned ebook, and with other articles I have previously written about these numbers, the only source I had was source (3) as included here: (The Irish Numerals of Cardiganshire by David Greene, (Institiúid Ard-Léinn Bhaile Átha Cliath), 1975.) Hence with only source (3) I was not able to give as much detail as I will be able to in the future on these subjects having now come across sources (1) and (2) as given in this article.
Two possible sets of pre-Celtic numbers, mentioned by David Thomas
Essentially, I have recently had a number of new thoughts about the pre-Indo-European peoples in western Wales. After already having written about the Cardiganshire Irish/Goidelic/Goidelic-like numerals several times, only more recently did I read mention of pre-Celtic numerals existing in Cardiganshire. This is in my opinion, very interesting. It is such a pity however that I have been unable to locate where the numerals themselves might be published. They are mentioned in “Some of the remains of the “ lost ” Goidelic language of Cardiganshire, by David Thomas, beginning on page 78 of the book: Cardiganshire Antiquarian Society Transactions Volume 5 (2). This was written after the original Cardiganshire “Irish” numbers were published, and after several other forms of these Goidelic-like numerals were found. However, it also appears that pre-Celtic numerals were also found in Cardiganshire.
The author David Thomas writes on page 78 of (2) after introducing the topic of the Goidelic numerals in the county: “Five other strange and interesting sets of numerals have also been found in the county during recent years. Two of them appear to be pre-Celtic…”. But nothing further on these numerals is discussed in source (2). Nothing more is mentioned about the other three “strange and interesting” sets of numerals nor the two "pre-Celtic" ones. These five new sets appears to be entirely unpublished, as they were not published in the original publication by David Thomas, source (1), nor were they published by David Thomas in source (2), where they are mentioned. As far as I know they have not been published elsewhere, but I may be wrong.
Other Brythonic-like, but possibly pre-Celtic numerals in Cardiganshire (includes table)
In source (1) the numerals eini, beini, bara, batri, bum/bim are given at a note at the end of the source, indicating that 10 new systems have been found since source (1) was published. These eini, beini, bara, batri, bum/bim numerals are similar to some “Cumbric” numerals from Millom in Cumbria, but I do not think that these numerals given in source (1) are one of the two “pre-Celtic” systems referred to in source (2). Although on a different note, these numbers from Cardiganshire and those in Cumbria could indeed contain remnants of pre-Indo-European languages. I have discussed a “Cumbric” counting system with initial p- similar to the b-s in this Brythonic-like system and what this might mean like this in my article published in Silly Linguistics last year, titled: Searching for the ‘Cumbric’ language in the Old North (Northern England and Southern Scotland) – part three, ‘Cumbric’ numbers on Cumbria’s west coast
David Thomas does not give any mention of pre-Celtic numerals however in source (1) and indicates only their similarity to Brythonic-like numerals in the north of England.
In source (4), a similar and more-complete set of Brythonic-like numerals given in source (1) are given by John E. Morris, although this fuller version of this family of numerical systems does indeed give it the impression of being pre-Celtic or pre-Indo-European, regardless of that it clearly has some similarities to Celtic. According to John E. Morris they were given to him by Mrs Johns of Fronhaul, Llwyngroes. In source (4) they are given by. These numbers are all from source (4) and are given below in a column (the left-most, titled "Numerals as given by John E. Morris"), to the right are the equivalent numbers from Millom in Cumbria (perhaps in part pre-Celtic), followed by the Welsh and English forms of the numbers in the other two columns to the right. The Millom numbers are from source (5). There are more comments on the numbers below the table. The table is below:
| Numerals as given by John E. Morris | Millom numerals | Welsh | English |
|---|---|---|---|
| eini | aina | un | one |
| beini | peina | dau | two |
| bari | para | tri | three |
| batri | pedera | pedwar | four |
| bim | pump | pump | five |
| eithi | ithy | chwech | six |
| ceithi | mithy | saith | seven |
| cari | owera | wyth | eight |
| catri | lavera | naw | nine |
| cing | dig | deg | ten |
| einibas | aina-dig | un ar ddeg | eleven |
| beinibas | peina-dig | dau ar ddeg | twelve |
| baribas | para-dig | tri ar ddeg | thirteen |
| batribas | pedera-dig | pedwar ar ddeg | fourteen |
| bymffas | bumfit | pymtheg | fifteen |
| einibymffas | aina-bumfit | un ar bymtheg | sixteen |
| beinibymffas | peina-bumfit | dau ar bymtheg | seventeen |
| baribymffas | para-bumfit | deunaw | eighteen |
| batribymffas | pedera-bumfit | pedwar ar bymtheg | nineteen |
| eica | giggy | ugain | twenty |
Numbers 1 – 5 repeat the same pattern that numbers 6 to 10 do, with two groups of numbers rhyming in the same way. The only numbers with initial sounds different to those in their group are the numbers 1 and 5, the three numbers after each repeat the same initial consonant. Was this just a form of rhyming? Perhaps not. When we consider at least that a form of the initial numbers survive in Cumbria too, it would seem at least to indicate a wider practice in parts of Britain at one time, involving the sound p/b sound in the first few numbers. Similarly in the system shown here, it is quite unusual I think to associate the [k] sound, written c, with the higher numbers between one and ten. Neither of these seem to be Indo-European in origin, nor is the -as suffix added on numbers between 10 and 15. Clearly these numbers show some relationship to Brythonic and are presumably not the pre-Celtic numerals mentioned by David Thomas. But nevertheless, the Brythonic-like numerals from Cardiganshire may have non-Indo-European features or may even be partially non-Indo-European in origin. It is interesting that the numbers for "6" are similar in the Millom numerals form and the Cardiganshire possible pre-Celtic form given in the table in this article. I also talked about some of the Millom and other "Cumbric" numbers in the Silly Linguistics article I mention in this article. Note that John E. Morris also references two "less complete" numerical systems once spoken at Capel Dewi and Llwchwr. Could this be another reference to the pre-Celtic numerals, meaning that in fact those collected by John E. Morris might also be in the same group of numeral systems that David Thomas described as pre-Celtic? I am not sure. But owing to that David Thomas recognised eini, beini, bara, batri, bum/bim (1) as Brythonic and not as pre-Celtic, might, perhaps, be indicative of two more systems, so far completely unpublished and almost forgotten, which is what David Thomas may have meant by "pre-Celtic. I will write more on these subjects soon and when I can find out more information.
Sources (1), (2), (3) and (4) are interesting and I will have much more to write on their work in the future. Many of the thoughts of the author of source (2) David Thomas regarding the connections between these Goidelic elements and the Bronze Age line up to what have been my instincts for a long time. Note that I do not give any of the many Goidelic systems in this article (the one in front of you).
I really do hope that these two pre-Celtic numeration systems can be found. If I can find the numerals then I will likely relatively shortly be publishing about them in more detail.
References:
Note that source (3) is not quoted from in this article but is included for reference purposes
(1): An old system of numeration found in South Cardiganshire, by David Thomas, published in the Cardiganshire Antiquarian Society Transactions volume 3, published in 1924
(2): Some of the remains of the “ lost ” Goidelic language of Cardiganshire, by David Thomas, beginning on page 78 of the book: Cardiganshire Antiquarian Society Transactions Volume 5, published in 1927
(3): The Irish Numerals of Cardiganshire by David Greene, (Institiúid Ard-Léinn Bhaile Átha Cliath), 1975.
(4): Old Numeral Forms, by John E. Morris, published on page 103 of Journal of the Cardiganshire Antiquarian Society, Volume 1 (numerals were given to John E. Morris by Mrs Johns of Fronhaul, Llwyngroes)
(5): Sheep scoring numbers, a page on Simon Ager's website: Omniglot.
Sources 1, 2 & 4 can be read online at the National Library of Wales/Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru website.
Note that source 1 was written before source 2.